C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa - Page 4

[R-COM]Michael_Denmark · 2017-11-25, 13:53

BTW; are both teams constructing obstacles in the battles?

Filamu · 2017-11-25, 14:12

Obstacles?

Pink_Panther · 2017-11-25, 14:44

Nope, they aren't. They just like line battles.

Obstacles which means strategic areas the team has to get rid off before being able to push and move on.
In this game it would include a FOB that blocks communication points or/and an avant-guarde squad attracting the enemy forces attention, in best case disrupting their lines. This means a heavily armed possibly entrenched squad acting as a sponge ready to suffer heavy supression and working to get the least casualties as possible :
That means avant guarde.

Filamu · 2017-11-25, 15:04

While all of that sounds really nice, it has a big problem in game. We can spawn all our troops at the front lines, choppers can fly over AA ++, and we aren't fighting over strategic areas, just random flags in weird places. Unless you are on a flag, there is no areas the enemy has to get rid off, they can just bypass you.

Friado · 2017-11-25, 16:08

Hey Michal_Denmark and Pink_Panther I invite you both to play the actual game! Actually playing the game would give some great insight why certain things work or not. Man clicking M1 more accurately than other guy might not be that deep in every situation.

Pink_Panther · 2017-11-25, 16:23

There is more to a map then just flags. Most of the time flags will be in shitty areas, so it is always preferrable to draw away the fight from the flag and/or take positions that prevent enemy from even see or set a foot in the flag area.

Try and identify how a battle would go without these said flags. Which positions will be taken, what areas would you not want enemy to take over ect...

Now this all seems pretty obvious, but to make things clearer in practice, I will illustrate 2 maps that bring this in example very well :
Kashan Desert and operarion Marlin.

Kashan Desert as you know is very focused on the bunker area, but that area even if it is the gig of the game, is the least important one. For everything around it is at play to acquire it.
And so there are the mountains on the East that have an overlook on the whole area. This is the place both teams are going to want in order to control the area, surpress and cover inf in the bunkers.
If both teams understand this well, there will be this thing that will happen that the main fight will no longer be in the bunkers where the flags are, but in the mountains. And in most scenarios you usually have 2 inf squads fighting in the mountains paying less and less attention on the flags. So this example illustrates that battles don't only have one focus on flags and that there are other aspects to seize.

Operation Marlin will go in more depth of why there are actually key areas on maps that have a depth over the resolve of the game.
I am going to illustrate the importance of district hill and UN outpost and why they still count in play even if they aren't in play as flags.

UN outpost has very good eyes on the palace and of the south of the city. It can even get eyes on the radio tower. So it is a very interesting area for MEC to control, not so for french.
This flag can either be a 2cnd cap or a third for the french. The thing is, is that if MEC can seize it the whole attention of the batle will be turned over there. Forcing the french to drawback, and the MEC will have the advantage.
If the flag is not in play MEC forces can still go there and provide a large foothold for forces to attack from the South and they can supress Palace and keep defenders there.

District Hill gives the same kind of advantage as UN outpost, exept that it is harder to defend and is 2cnd capable MEC flag. French forces will want to seize this end game to make ez victory, but they can also seize it after it is capped cause MEC don't have much to stay there unless they want to ambush and disrupt a northen french attack. ( there are positions that are way better for that )
If the french can take control of this area, they will have an easy access to the east part of the city, and will be overall in a position that will cut off MEC reinforcements. This area will be key even if it won't be directly on the frontlines and is an endgame flag.

All these areas, the mountains, district hill and un outpost can become obstacles, and they show off the importance of terrain in this game.
I hope I have made myself understood under this explanation, and that you agree that terrain really is important in this game.

Even though on a competitive game like you seem to think, that the most perfectly organised deployements direcly constitute the games frontline, I would like to say that you can also fight for the frontline you want or deploy less further away to your advantage. If you limit your deployement to game mechanics and flag layout, you will suffer the battlefield and not take advantage of it, as much as a shitty driver suffers the road.

Pink_Panther · 2017-11-25, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friado

Hey Michal_Denmark and Pink_Panther I invite you both to play the actual game! Actually playing the game would give some great insight why certain things work or not. Man clicking M1 more accurately than other guy might not be that deep in every situation.

Mr.Friado, I advise you to speak less about things you ignore, you would find yourself easely confused and ridiculed.

fecht_niko · 2017-11-25, 17:04

PR isnt about kills and flags and tickets,the only important part is teamwork and communication!

Who doesnt like to hear in mumble:
-This is 6 we need supressive fire. Over.
-We have heavy contacts, need EVAC. Over.

L4gi · 2017-11-26, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by fecht_niko

PR isnt about kills and flags and tickets,the only important part is teamwork and communication!

I read this and almost had a heart attack. Then I noticed who wrote it.

[R-COM]Michael_Denmark · 2017-11-26, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friado

Hey Michal_Denmark and Pink_Panther I invite you both to play the actual game! Actually playing the game would give some great insight why certain things work or not. Man clicking M1 more accurately than other guy might not be that deep in every situation.

Friado, you are spot on. I apologies if I sound like I know how everything works in the game. Clearly I do not. Last time I played PR, was in, I think 2013-14? Thus, far too long for me to follow all the new changes. However, I do follow the debate in the PR Forums and watch in game videos plus tutorials too. So completely outdated I am not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it should still be possible to construct razorwire and foxholes / sandbags, plus of course Anti-Air and Anti-Tank. Mines and charges can still be placed in reasonable numbers. Hence, the obstacles available, for tunneling in an attacker, to a kill zone, should be doable.

The fluid C13-battles, in the contested flag zones, are the reason for my question. Because, perhaps an obstacle system, could make it easier, for both the defending and attacking side, to control this highly intense and fluid dynamic?

If my question seems irrelevant, due to any lack of insight on my part, please accept my apology. However, if seen relevant, I wanted to put light on two guides I had forgot about. They are both made by RAWSwampFox:

FOBS - The Most Important Facet of the Game PR
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-...t-game-pr.html
PR Statistics / Useless Information
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-...formation.html

They are not directly related to constructing obstacles, but they do still contain useful information, I think.

2017-11-25, 13:53	#31
[R-COM]Michael_Denmark Retired PELA/CATA CO Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 3,810	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa BTW; are both teams constructing obstacles in the battles? __________________ Speed Surprise Strength 500 million combat boots... One heartbeat

2017-11-25, 14:12	#32
Filamu Task Force Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 579	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa Obstacles? __________________ Something's very wrong here, and yet a little bit right.

2017-11-25, 14:44	#33
Pink_Panther PRT Player Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Grenoble Posts: 91	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa Nope, they aren't. They just like line battles. Obstacles which means strategic areas the team has to get rid off before being able to push and move on. In this game it would include a FOB that blocks communication points or/and an avant-guarde squad attracting the enemy forces attention, in best case disrupting their lines. This means a heavily armed possibly entrenched squad acting as a sponge ready to suffer heavy supression and working to get the least casualties as possible : That means avant guarde. Last edited by Pink_Panther; 2017-11-25 at 14:55.

2017-11-25, 15:04	#34
Filamu Task Force Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 579	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa While all of that sounds really nice, it has a big problem in game. We can spawn all our troops at the front lines, choppers can fly over AA ++, and we aren't fighting over strategic areas, just random flags in weird places. Unless you are on a flag, there is no areas the enemy has to get rid off, they can just bypass you. __________________ Something's very wrong here, and yet a little bit right.

2017-11-25, 16:08	#35
Friado C12 Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 377	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa Hey Michal_Denmark and Pink_Panther I invite you both to play the actual game! Actually playing the game would give some great insight why certain things work or not. Man clicking M1 more accurately than other guy might not be that deep in every situation. __________________

2017-11-25, 16:23	#36
Pink_Panther PRT Player Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Grenoble Posts: 91	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa There is more to a map then just flags. Most of the time flags will be in shitty areas, so it is always preferrable to draw away the fight from the flag and/or take positions that prevent enemy from even see or set a foot in the flag area. Try and identify how a battle would go without these said flags. Which positions will be taken, what areas would you not want enemy to take over ect... Now this all seems pretty obvious, but to make things clearer in practice, I will illustrate 2 maps that bring this in example very well : Kashan Desert and operarion Marlin. Kashan Desert as you know is very focused on the bunker area, but that area even if it is the gig of the game, is the least important one. For everything around it is at play to acquire it. And so there are the mountains on the East that have an overlook on the whole area. This is the place both teams are going to want in order to control the area, surpress and cover inf in the bunkers. If both teams understand this well, there will be this thing that will happen that the main fight will no longer be in the bunkers where the flags are, but in the mountains. And in most scenarios you usually have 2 inf squads fighting in the mountains paying less and less attention on the flags. So this example illustrates that battles don't only have one focus on flags and that there are other aspects to seize. Operation Marlin will go in more depth of why there are actually key areas on maps that have a depth over the resolve of the game. I am going to illustrate the importance of district hill and UN outpost and why they still count in play even if they aren't in play as flags. UN outpost has very good eyes on the palace and of the south of the city. It can even get eyes on the radio tower. So it is a very interesting area for MEC to control, not so for french. This flag can either be a 2cnd cap or a third for the french. The thing is, is that if MEC can seize it the whole attention of the batle will be turned over there. Forcing the french to drawback, and the MEC will have the advantage. If the flag is not in play MEC forces can still go there and provide a large foothold for forces to attack from the South and they can supress Palace and keep defenders there. District Hill gives the same kind of advantage as UN outpost, exept that it is harder to defend and is 2cnd capable MEC flag. French forces will want to seize this end game to make ez victory, but they can also seize it after it is capped cause MEC don't have much to stay there unless they want to ambush and disrupt a northen french attack. ( there are positions that are way better for that ) If the french can take control of this area, they will have an easy access to the east part of the city, and will be overall in a position that will cut off MEC reinforcements. This area will be key even if it won't be directly on the frontlines and is an endgame flag. All these areas, the mountains, district hill and un outpost can become obstacles, and they show off the importance of terrain in this game. I hope I have made myself understood under this explanation, and that you agree that terrain really is important in this game. Even though on a competitive game like you seem to think, that the most perfectly organised deployements direcly constitute the games frontline, I would like to say that you can also fight for the frontline you want or deploy less further away to your advantage. If you limit your deployement to game mechanics and flag layout, you will suffer the battlefield and not take advantage of it, as much as a shitty driver suffers the road.

2017-11-25, 17:04	#38
fecht_niko PRT Player Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 150	Re: C13 Battle #2 Nuijamaa PR isnt about kills and flags and tickets,the only important part is teamwork and communication! Who doesnt like to hear in mumble: -This is 6 we need supressive fire. Over. -We have heavy contacts, need EVAC. Over.