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Onil
December 5th, 2016, 07:25 PM
http://tournament.realitymod.com/images/c12resources/announcements/thread_c12.png

Hello PRT community!

The first battle of Campaign 12 has been played. APN lead in tickets almost the entire round, but EMC fought admirably and and almost succeeded in turning the game around with a daring offensive in the North which can be watched HERE (http://tournament.realitymod.com/prt_mods/PRDemoViewer/). Ultimately the game went to APN with a final score of 107 - 0.


http://tournament.realitymod.com/images/c12resources/announcements/xiangshan_victory.png

http://tournament.realitymod.com/images/c12headers/header_cycle.png

We are currently playing Operation Rising Sun, as can be seen on our operations page (http://tournament.realitymod.com/index.php?page=status). The second map of this operation is Wanda Shan INF.



Date: 17th of December 2016
Time: Briefing: 18:00 PRT | Battle: 19:00 PRT
Map: Wanda Shan INF
Teams: PLA: APN| GER: EMC
No-Go Zone Rules: Click here (http://tournament.realitymod.com/showthread.php?t=34276#f18)

http://www.realitymod.com/mapgallery/images/maps/wandashan/mapoverview_gpm_cq_16.jpg






http://media.realitymod.com/headers/prbf2_release.png

The Project Reality Team is proud to announce the official release of Project Reality: BF2 v1.4!

PR:BF2 v1.4 brings brand new vehicles, weapons, three new levels, a full rework of some existing maps and balance adjustments across many AAS map layers, all along with the usual bugfixes and performance improvements.

Remember to manually update to 1.4.1 (http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f380-project-reality-news/143573-project-reality-bf2-v1-4-1-manual-update-required.html).

zKlF_iPmzF4

Find the full changelog and announcement here: PR Forums (http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f380-project-reality-news/143434-project-reality-bf2-v1-4-released.html)

-------------------------




http://tournament.realitymod.com/images/c12headers/header_quick.png
PR Tournament Website (http://tournament.realitymod.com)
How-To Sign-Up (http://tournament.realitymod.com/showthread.php?t=35693)
Tournament FAQ (http://tournament.realitymod.com/index.php?page=faq)
Tournament Rules (http://tournament.realitymod.com/showthread.php?t=31948)
Battle & Practice Schedule (http://tournament.realitymod.com/showthread.php?t=31834)
Project Reality Discord (www.discord.me/projectreality)

Onil
December 5th, 2016, 07:26 PM
Signups are currently Open with 17 slots available.

Michael_Denmark
December 8th, 2016, 02:00 PM
What a great battle. It can be described, using only two words: sluggishness, acceleration, sluggishness.

This, the first battle of Campaign 12, became the story of two teams, developing their expertise in a slow build up of force allocation. Only exchanging positioned fire solutions, on the local level, until change deployed it self, into the dynamic.
Because, Now everything exploded, in a surprise attack, that not only evened out the almost 40 tickets, that the EMC was behind, but also pushed the APN all the way east, until it decided to fall even further back, behind the most northern part of the eastern river.
Time wise, this EMC offensive, took place way into the battle and thus, had similarities with the APN offensive on Burning Sands.

But a remarkable achievement it is and a solid indicator too, of a tournament team, the Euro-Arabian Military Coalition, still in its initial stage of developing its own offensive spirit and perhaps its own maneuver style too? We already experienced this spark for the smack, on Operation Marlin, where the EMC did pull it off and won the day.

However, contrary to the likewise and aggressive EMC push on Operation Marlin, its successor here on Xiangshan, perhaps overstretched it self, ebbing out as it did, the closer it got to the opposite river bank. The following reduced speed and tempo changed the battle dynamic into a more or less static firefight again, where the APN still has the sub-shooter battle advantage. In this case, not forgetting, a firefight involving an Area Attack, on two heavy EMC vehicles, very much needed in order for the EMC to recreate its speed and tempo.

Nonetheless, here from the side-line, this daring northern surprise attack, deserve the respect for its nerve, its spirit and its tactical success.
The famous quote from the French revolutionary leader, Georges Jacques Danton, whose words so many other commanders, throughout our modern era, of war history, has used as their own maxim too.


"L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!"
"Boldness, audacity, always audacity!"




With Dantons famous words, I will respectfully deploy a few images and comments.

https://s27.postimg.org/qg47xdiv7/0_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.png
EMC deployment of Air infantry on the eastern side of the Temple river.
APN in a similar marching formation as on Burning Sands.

https://s27.postimg.org/ymw7oy8xv/1_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
The opposing teams start facing each other.
Note how their focus is diametrically different. EMC concentrating north of Temple, while APN concentrating on it and behind it.
Did they perceive the center of gravity in the same manner?


https://s27.postimg.org/j2otyeytf/2_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
[PR]APN|Soban is the first killer in the first real battle of Campaign 12.
In a single shot, his anti-tank rocket system, take out seven EMC tickets!


https://s27.postimg.org/jgq5y0iwz/3_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
A few minutes later, using his deployed 50 Cal, [PR]EMC|GHOST_-DK-, becomes the second killer of Campaign 12.


https://s27.postimg.org/fyirfd7er/4_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
The last squad to deploy is an APN squad in the north.
Initially it had actually deployed further southwest, however, it decided to withdraw up north and deploy there instead.


https://s27.postimg.org/csy5p5osj/5_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
Notice how the two squads in the south has done everything possible, to avoid each other.
Here from the side-line it seems as they both had deployed their focus on the rear of the enemy team.


https://s30.postimg.org/3vfgv84g1/5_1_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_EMC.jpg
The front just before EMC launches its surprise. As you can see, the ticket balance at this point, is in APN favor, leading with almost 40.
Did the lead make the APN feel safe?


https://s27.postimg.org/rq6mq620z/5_5_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Mee.jpg
An image from the the perhaps potential peak of the EMC offensive.
Again, take note of the ticket balance, now it is 414-414.
The EMC attack has leveled it out. Quite an impressive accomplishment.


https://s27.postimg.org/52rdk0mgz/6_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_Meeti.jpg
EMC at its height of territorial gain.


https://s27.postimg.org/oynczk3ib/7_PRT_C12_B2_EMC_France_versus_APN_China_APN_i.jpg
Allied Pacific Nations in its successful and victorious counter attack!
Once again, take a look on the tickets.
Clearly the EMC retreat and its attached APN pursuit, has made a big impact in the balance.
From here on the battle, more or less, morphed into what it started with,
a positioned sub-shooter battle, in where the APN maintained its ticket lead.



So again, what a battle. Style wise, almost like Rommel versus Montgomery, where the attacking Rommel also faced defeat, after having stretched his efforts too far, while simultaneously, when the speed and tempo of his attack faded out, deciding not to fall back into a stronger position.

But let there be no doubt, that in my mind, offensive surprises like this one, stretching too far or not, is what makes the project reality tournament worth watching.

Clearly it is possible, making successful usage, of the second most complex battle behavior in the PR dynamic; the attack.

What an inspiration.

Thank you.

Vista
December 8th, 2016, 02:23 PM
Clearly it is possible, making successful usage, of the second most complex battle behavior in the PR dynamic; the attack.

What an inspiration.

Thank you.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AfraidShamefulFairyfly-size_restricted.gif

Senshi
December 8th, 2016, 02:27 PM
The only possible response.

Vista
December 8th, 2016, 02:43 PM
The only possible response.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/cf7056ead422037830b202294c306bbd/tumblr_nhcuj0h2cB1rjvqz7o1_400.gif

I also had this one

Jizzco
December 8th, 2016, 03:12 PM
I figured out what emc really stands for, European meme collection.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Senshi
December 8th, 2016, 04:36 PM
I will not disagree with that.

Michael_Denmark
December 8th, 2016, 08:55 PM
Hi guys, glad you approved it. I have to say I was a bit worried. It is not a tradition in the tournament, for other CO or SCO players, to do this stuff. Then again, now all these videos are out and the administrators started that great analysis idea, then why not give this a try too?

Should anyone feel unpleasant with it, please just say so. I am sure people will respect it, the few of us who actually follow these fights on this level. And of course, a lot more could be said, many pages could be written, but a superficial analysis/description like above, is maybe not a bad idea?

I mean, after all, we are so few CO and SCO players in overall, around 50 right, out of all these thousands of players, thus if we can inspire each other with a few of our perceptions and opinions, maybe that will accumulate some knowledge for our small community?

Finally, before deploying my question related to the next battle, I want to congratulate the APN team, for their well deserved victory. In my opinion you played it safe, skilled and sound. In terms of safe, probably like I would have done too. You also won. And related to that victory, Frank_Jeager, that was cool to watch, how you utilized that main battle tank.

Now to the question: The Norinco FAV, is that the FAV Buggy?

ytman
December 11th, 2016, 04:06 AM
I enjoyed it myself. Thought it a fair representation of the battle.

I'd really enjoy doing a post tournament debrief in this vein. I think the game, especially played at this level, has real opportunity to be translated along realistic terms.

Michael_Denmark
December 11th, 2016, 11:52 AM
I am glad you enjoyed it ytman. My heavier focus on the EMC, did make me a bit worried, that the APN, would feel unfair treated.

I'd really enjoy doing a post tournament debrief in this vein. I think the game, especially played at this level, has real opportunity to be translated along realistic terms.

That would be great, I am looking forward to it. I also agree.

***

Below is deployed my explanation, of why I did not focus as much on the APN as on the EMC. I know you guys are busy with all the thinking and planning - fully remember how stressful it was, so I dont expect anyone to use time on reading or replying.


Why I focused more on the EMC than the APN in my first post
I did in fact attempt to analyse the APN deployment also. I mean, why did the APN deploy with two weak wings and a strong center? The south wing constantly on the move, while the northern wing, at first deployed in proximity to the opposing force, almost as it had assumed their would a force here, then only to pull back and deploy static?

This picture looked a bit like the famous trap, that is, the French southern wing at Austerlitz, being the bait, which the allies took and thus lost their center after wise, including the hills in their center too. On this map, in the EMC rear, there is such a hill too.

Furthermore, that northern APN squad, was lead by WebCole, also being the squad leader in the midst of things, on Burning Sand, from where the APN also launched its offensive later on, against that EMC building, sort of being a bulge too. Maybe the deployment of WebCole up there, all alone as he were, was a coincidence, but then again, maybe not? Perhaps the APN leadership wanted him there, as a force to pull back to the blocking force on the western bank of the river, leading the defense there?

However, as you can see, my analysis was based on too much speculation, so instead I decided to focus my attention, on what I could in fact see, taking place during the battle, basically being the successful APN positional fighting, and the partly successful, EMC offensive also.

The indicators that to me, lead to my interpretation of an APN 'Austerlitz' trap, were as follows:

1.The initial 'deep' APN deployment with focal point on Temple. The deployment is almost like a column.

2. [PR]APN|Soban and his HAT deployed on Temple. On Burning Sand, Soban was also deployed closely to the APN northern push. I even think he was the first killer on Burning Sand too, producing pretty much the same result, if not better, as on here on Xiangshan.

3.Third indicator was the behaviour of Webcoles squad, which first deployed close to the EMC bridge-head, only to pull back hereafter. Bait.

4. The southern APN squads, did what they could to avoid any fighting, while simultaneously not going straight to the EMC rear, made me suspicious on the intention with these, seemingly disciplined squads. Was the real purpose, to a) conduct reconnaissance / screening on the south wing, and b1) hereafter, if the northern trap were activated, move back north as a blocking force for assumed EMC units on the advance, or b2) as harassment force, doing the stuff Murkey did on Burning Sand too?

https://s18.postimg.org/u2itnthq1/the_potential_for_an_APN_offensive_based_on_its.jp g
Not mentioned on the image, but the Temple was a useful position, as fire base, for supporting an APN thrust across the Temple river. Hence an indicator of a potential intention.
In overall though, the APN setup, was probably deployed for both offensive and defensive operations. In fact you could say that about both teams.

So in principle, the EMC force in the bridge-head, could thus be used to push south to Temple and close the EMC trap, after an APN crossing had been processed, as seen above.


OMG this almost resembles officer debates back when I played on a team.

***

I am looking forward to the next battle. These videos are great when you are on the side line.

Raidonrai
December 11th, 2016, 01:14 PM
jesus christ

Michael_Denmark
December 11th, 2016, 02:03 PM
He he, and amen too.

But that is why I used all those images from the list of active vehicles. They portray the team scaled mobility factor.

In most of the images, it is the APN having most vehicles ready. Thus in theory and potentially speaking, the higher focus on mobility as well. Even though it was the EMC mostly on the attack.

As I said, an interesting and inspirational battle.

AlonTavor
December 11th, 2016, 04:50 PM
Use this (https://storage.googleapis.com/prdemoviewer/1.4/index.html) if you want a more up to date version of the player

Michael_Denmark
December 11th, 2016, 08:47 PM
Copy Alon. Hm, load from URL...is that the map URL from the standard replay page, or how does it work?

AlonTavor
December 11th, 2016, 09:49 PM
https://storage.googleapis.com/prdemoviewer/1.4/index.html?demo=c12_b1.PRdemo

Alexswesnipr
December 11th, 2016, 10:46 PM
WHat is updated?

ytman
December 12th, 2016, 12:28 AM
GUI and loads more features like bookmarks.

WebCole
December 12th, 2016, 02:11 AM
Don't worry about Raid, he would have difficulty analysing a game of Tic-Tac-Toe if given the opportunity :p

Merchant
December 12th, 2016, 02:20 AM
GUI and loads more features like bookmarks.


To save others the trouble of trying to figure it out, click on the bottom-right star to create a bookmark, and click on the top-right star to view the bookmarks.

AlonTavor
December 12th, 2016, 10:24 AM
Some minor stuff here and there. Double click a unit to select his squad. Bookmark menu is really incomplete but its functional.

Yrkidding
December 12th, 2016, 11:27 AM
Just keeps getting better and better, Alon

Onil
December 12th, 2016, 12:58 PM
Just keeps getting better and better, Alon

+1 ;)

Mouthpiece
December 12th, 2016, 02:52 PM
APN battle planYour battle analysis is really close to reality. At least from my uninformed reservist view.

Michael_Denmark
December 13th, 2016, 09:20 AM
Thank you Mouthpiece. Perhaps it is, partly at least?

However, in regard to the tournament campaign, when using my 15 months of PRT CO experience, an analysis like this, is far too superficial. Just an input in a much larger analysis, taking in all the levels of the campaign.

Should I conduct a full PRT CO analysis of this, the first C12 battle, I would need at least 2 other planning participants (officers), for the individual threads/debates, plus squad leaders and perhaps NCO/specific-player reports/inputs too.

It would probably take 3-4 days of intensive analysis, to go through the entire list, hopefully producing a conclusion, at least on one of the campaign levels.

This situational analysis, is based on speculations only, and it took few 5 minutes to deliver. In fact it took me a lot more time, to draw those arrows on the image, than completing the analysis. Its just another input, primarily for the operational and tactical level in this part of the battle.

Mouthpiece, if you ever get the time and interest, please consider to join the ranks of the officer segment. People with experience are always needed on that level.

Vista
December 18th, 2016, 01:10 AM
Hey Michael when you see today's battle replay you're going to get a massive erection.

mectus11
December 18th, 2016, 03:12 AM
This situational analysis, is based on speculations only, and it took few 5 minutes to deliver. In fact it took me a lot more time, to draw those arrows on the image, than completing the analysis. Its just another input, primarily for the operational and tactical level in this part of the battle.


Just make it in Google Docs as a powerpoint file, it's much easier that way.

Michael_Denmark
December 19th, 2016, 02:54 PM
Hey Michael when you see today's battle replay you're going to get a massive erection.

Stiff as a board and tip top dirty map names, as the one discharged, one top of the current selection of response, really should be torpedoed, fittingly and satisfactorily, by anyone, ready willing and able, with the proper equipment at hand.

Now. Field Marshall Haigh, has formulated a brilliant commentary, on recent events taken place. Disturbing reports of multiple and shameless attempts, of forced penetration, plus a naughty little FOB, deployed straight into a nut, followed by a under the belt period, has lead to his decision, of drastically reduce his load, to the essential substance only. A so to say, blow by blow, after ballgame reporting.

As of such, we shall have no man, or woman, to be in doubt, that the Marshall, naturally, always carry as big, firm and strong a gun, as absolutely possible.

Just make it in Google Docs as a powerpoint file, it's much easier that way.

Anything easier is my way of doing it.

Thanks for the advice.

And congratulations too.

WebCole
December 19th, 2016, 04:12 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.

Yrkidding
December 19th, 2016, 04:41 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.

1234

Frontliner
December 19th, 2016, 04:59 PM
-snip-

Mariana Trench be like: "2 deep 4 me"

Michael_Denmark
December 20th, 2016, 08:22 AM
Well, that escalated quickly.

Oh dear, no escalation deployed from my side. Right, communication between people not knowing each other.

Right, I am sorry if my attempt to follow up, on the playful remark, has been misunderstood.

A fun read that erection remark, making me smile all over the face, because it had that hint of something decisive, taken place in that penis forest. Thus, it was even more fun hereafter, trying to put together, my own little successor.

Clearly my intent, failed totally.

What can I say...well, it was my first timer, I probably got a bit carried away, when using the synonyms page, so I was not trying to provoke anyone, only to follow suit with a build up.

I hope you will forgive me and accept my apology.

Mariana Trench be like: "2 deep 4 me"

Dont take it so seriously Frontliner, it were never meant as such. He deployed a funny remark, I tried to follow suit.

Raidonrai
December 20th, 2016, 08:25 AM
jesus christ

Michael_Denmark
December 20th, 2016, 09:41 AM
OMG, lol, now you are doing it again.

See, I think that is funny.

Look folks, I clearly stepped on a mine here, unwillingly.

I regret I wrote it but I cannot change it back, except that is, to put stuff like this, on my Not 2 Do List....when I read that erection remark, I was like, finally someone with humor.

Gentlemen, I hope you will not take it seriously, there was and is nothing seriously about it, I simply made a mistake.

Filamu
December 20th, 2016, 11:11 AM
No mistake here, I think most are very pleased and are following closely with a keen interest.

Michael_Denmark
December 27th, 2016, 12:30 PM
No mistake here, I think most are very pleased and are following closely with a keen interest.

All right, back again.

No mistake here - very pleased - following closely - keen interest, - and all deployed in a short sentence. Fascinating stuff Filamu, I respectfully thank you for it too.

However, maybe not as fascinating as your contribution to the APN defense, on Operation Marlin, you know, after the loss of the TV station. That smaller building you deployed onto, in Delta 7, - you surely got some good kills from there. Good shooting and use of opportunities.

In fact, when you think of it, that phase of the APN defense, from around 03:07, seemed quite solid.

Maybe that type of defensive setup, in distanced positions, like a matrix, is more the APN defensive style, than a solid line formation, as seen in last battle?

Senshi
December 31st, 2016, 04:24 PM
Defensive formation is much more about the terrain.

In cities, there always are key structures that allow control of a large area and are easy to defend. In open forest/fields, there's very few hard structures to assist a defense. And those few are well known and usually mortar crews and/or recon has plans to quickly demolish any troops using them. So individual SQL initiative is much more important in recognizing and using impromptu defensive positions. Elastic defense is another great tactic, though it is very hard to implement in PR.
The type and number of fire support also plays a huge role in how defenses can be organized. On Wanda Shan, the only fire support was mortars and the area attack, and both teams relied a lot on those.

Michael_Denmark
January 2nd, 2017, 09:29 AM
Yes, the terrain certainly play a large part, when deploying for defense. Cities are generally speaking, easy to defend, although I have always preferred water obstacles above any other type of terrain. Cities can be captured quite fast, actually, when using detailed assault approaches.
In my experience, the best way to take out a city defense, as on Burning Sands, is to defeat the defender, instead of destroying him. Thus to me at least, two very different approaches, in fact almost opposite, on both the operational and tactical level.

Anyway, I agree that in a situation as the one we saw unfolding on Wanda Shan, the individual squad leader initiative, were in several situations important, although the multiple directional, commander coordinated attack, at the end of the round, literally squeezing the APN defense to termination, proofed to be decisive.

So when taking into account, both the tactical situation, the ticket balance, plus the timing, that final assault was beautiful executed. Quite inspiring for a defender type of CO player, like my self.

When that is said, I have to say though, that it was still a close call. I mean, had the APN had one single counter procedure available, for such a "compression" scenario, then I think the assault would have failed. Because these types of assaults, can through defensive measures, be deflected.

The way for me, to perceive the terrain, on Wanda Shan, as for instance a city map, or even a water map, is the way forward, in order to create the type of defensive formation, as the APN used, so successfully on Operation Marlin. I perceive Wanda Shan as an Island map, where the valleys are the water and the forested hills are the islands / buildings.

I have not walked the map yet, so I am not sure what type of music that relate to it the best?

Perhaps, on a map like Wanda, the fire support constitute the elastic defense component, while the infantry plus the air and ground vehicles, constitute the potential threats, deployed in such a mobile manner, that they will force the attacker into killing zones of indirect fire?

Not sure of course, just thinking loud.

In terms of speed, rhythm and tone, maybe this piece of music is Wanda Shan? - related to the operational definitions of the map and the attached tactics, emerging out of that framework?

Q8-wYs41Nck

Senshi
January 2nd, 2017, 09:43 AM
Of course you can deny assaults. But it's harder than it seems, because you have limited information and limited time to react.
Minor mistakes in recon and subsequent squad repositionings, or plain bad luck can mean all the difference between throwing back an assault ( and thus causing major losses to the attacker), or holding a position too long, risking major losses on the defensive side. The same is true for the attacker: Over-committing to an already-bogged-down assault can quickly turn into a ticket-grinder due to continuous squadwipes.

An offensive does not inherently favor one side, it simply increases both risk and possible rewards. There's a reason why this has been (and still is) discussed for centuries in military science.

Michael_Denmark
January 2nd, 2017, 10:11 AM
True words. Limited information and limited time to react, minor mistakes or bad luck often become decisive in a static situation, as on Wanhda Shan. In that type of situation, where the focus has deployed it self onto the tactical level of the dynamic, the overall picture of the battle can be very hard to read correctly.

Who knows, maybe the APN wanted the EMC to exploit the open southern flank, but somehow failed to deliver on the coordination or communication level?

An offensive does not inherently favor one side, it simply increases both risk and possible rewards. There's a reason why this has been (and still is) discussed for centuries in military science.

True again. However, that is not my point, instead being, that the offensive is not even necessary on a map like Wanda Shan. Neither is the defense. Both are irrelevant to each other. Because both focus on destroying, instead of defeating.